Commissioners Jim Wansacz and Corey O'Brien have held more than a dozen private meetings with elected municipal and school board officials from throughout Lackawanna County over the past three months in possible violation of Pennsylvania's Sunshine Act.
The majority Democratic commissioners describe the unadvertised, invitation-only meetings as little more than informal chat sessions, a chance to swap ideas and learn what other public officials have on their minds.
Because no deliberation or official action takes place, there is no violation of the state's open meetings law, either by the commissioners or the other elected officials in attendance, the administration maintains.
"It's not like there is an agenda," Mr. Wansacz said. "When we go in there, it's kind of like, 'What do you want to talk about? What's going on?'â"
Melissa Melewsky, media law counsel for the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association, said the Sunshine Act does not make a distinction between formal and informal meetings when it comes to public policy discussions. At best, she said, the commissioners are "walking a very thin line."
"There is no reason these discussions can't happen at a properly advertised public meeting," Ms. Melewsky said. "What the commissioners hear is certainly proper for anyone to hear."
Since mid-March, Mr. Wansacz and Mr. O'Brien have individually or together held at least 13 meetings attended by elected municipal council members, township supervisors or school directors. Minority Commissioner Patrick O'Malley has not participated in most of the meetings; efforts to reach him on Friday were unsuccessful.
Most meetings have occurred in regional settings, such as the Abingtons, the Midvalley and North Pocono, although there have also been sessions in specific municipalities such as Scranton and Dunmore. Multiple government bodies have been represented at nearly all. In some cases, mayors, appointed managers and superintendents have also taken part.
Mr. O'Brien said he and Mr. Wansacz are trying to establish regular quarterly meetings with public officials in various areas of the county to open a dialog about what is happening in their respective realms "so if there is any way we can work together on projects, we know about those."
"When I was elected in 2008, if somebody asked me what surprised me the most, it's that nobody works together, nobody communicates. We are trying to stop that and turn that around," Mr. O'Brien said.
A number of municipal officials who have participated in the meetings said they were unaware there might be a Sunshine Act issue.
But others have had concerns.
In March, in response to questions from Taylor officials, county community relations coordinator Rick Notari assured borough manager Dan Zeleniak in an email that county solicitor Donald Frederickson and minority solicitor John Brazil both agreed an informal session could take place if no ongoing borough issues were discussed.
"As long as the informal session remains question and answer, there shouldn't be a problem," Mr. Notari told Mr. Zeleniak.
The commissioners earlier this year hired four community relations coordinators to act as liaisons with local government officials. Each coordinator typically attends public meetings in their assigned area and the informal sessions held by the commissioners.
Mr. Frederickson, who was asked by the commissioners to research the legality of the sessions under the Sunshine Act, prepared a memorandum in which he concluded meetings "to discuss matters of concern and share ideas about mutual matters of concern" do not violate the law.
He cited a 1989 decision in which Commonwealth Court held that the process of discussing and debating informally with others, including fellow members of a public agency, does not amount to deliberations under the Sunshine Act.
According to the ruling, members of a government agency may engage in "inquiring, questioning and learning" about issues outside of a public meeting, the solicitor said.
In an interview, Mr. Frederickson was hesitant even to refer to the informal sessions as meetings.
"Nobody is chairing it. There is no agenda. They don't call it to order and do the Pledge of Allegiance and all that," he said. "It's more sit down, have a cup of coffee and ask what's going on."
Ms. Melewsky of the PNA called Mr. Frederickson's take on the Commonwealth Court ruling a "rather broad interpretation" of the decision with which she does not agree. If the Sunshine Act is to mean anything, it must be strictly followed, she said.
Unless they fall within one of the narrow and specific exceptions to the Sunshine Act, discussions of public issues must take place in public forums, she said.
"If there is a back and forth going on, that could be the genesis of public policy, and the public is entitled to witness that and participate in that," Ms. Melewsky said. "The public doesn't just get to see the final vote. They get to see the process from formation to completion, and this has the potential to cut the public out of the initial step."
The commissioners have invited The Times-Tribune to cover any or all of the informal meetings - an invitation issued after the newspaper made its initial inquiries about the sessions. Ms. Melewsky said that is a "wonderful" gesture, but it does not meet the requirements of the act.
"If they have invited the press, why not everyone else as well?" she asked.
Doug Hill, executive director of the County Commissioners Association of Pennsylvania, said commissioners in a number of counties across the state conduct similar meetings "as a matter of course" to keep abreast of issues at the municipal level.
"If they said, 'OK, we want to get together and talk about bridge projects for next year,' that would be a whole different matter," Mr. Hill said. "If they are just acting as a sounding board, that is fine, as we see it. I don't see any real issue."
Although it has not happened often, some of the meetings have attracted quorums of other public bodies.
On May 14, four members of Clarks Summit Borough Council attended a meeting Mr. Wansacz held with officials from the Abingtons.
Council President Gerrie Carey, who was there, said the Sunshine Act didn't come up because it was not "a situation where council members were getting together and discussing council or borough activities or business."
A week earlier, five members of the Mid Valley School Board were at a meeting in Dickson City for Mid Valley officials. Both Mr. Wansacz and Mr. O'Brien attended.
Board President Gerald Luchansky said it did not occur to him at the time that a board quorum was present. As it turned out, aside from complaints about the impact of state budget cuts, there was little discussion about the Mid Valley School District, he said.
Mr. Luchansky said it seemed to him the commissioners "were sort of pushing for regionalization of government," although they offered no specifics, and there was a lot of talk about the county's baseball deal.
"I personally didn't see any real point to having the meeting," Mr. Luchansky said. "I felt they were just kind of, you know, promoting themselves, really."
Dickson City Councilman Mike Fedorka, one of two council members who attended, said he thinks it is great the commissioners are meeting with municipal officials and hopes it will lead to more intergovernmental cooperation.
With only two members of council present, he does not think the session presented any Sunshine Act issues. However, it is something Dickson City council is very sensitive to and if two more members had shown up, one would have left to avoid having a quorum, he said.
"We make sure everything is on the up and up," he said. "We don't want to leave the wrong impression."
In the end, no elected borough officials showed up at a May 2 meeting in Taylor with the two majority commissioners. Mr. Zeleniak, the borough manager, attended, and Director Carol Armstrong represented the Riverside School Board.
Mr. Zeleniak said it was a "very informal" session.
"It was like we were sitting on a park bench, just talking about what Taylor has going on and so forth," he said. "It was more like whether the county can do anything for us and how can they can help and have better communications and that kind of thing."
Contact the writer: dsingleton@timesshamrock.com